Why Ghosts Cannot Exist - A physics discussion

Q. I'm thinking that if ghosts actually existed then they would be interacting with the physical world. To do that they would need an energy field or particle that was detectable. I'm not aware of the LHC finding any unknown forces that remotely make the existence of ghosts possible. I'm talking about conservation of energy.

A. OK. Let’s unpack it step by step:

Interaction with the Physical World

For ghosts to exist as physical entities, they’d need to interact with matter or energy in measurable ways (e.g., exerting force, emitting radiation, disturbing electromagnetic fields).

In physics, any interaction requires a mediating force or particle. We know the four fundamental forces: gravity, electromagnetism, strong nuclear, and weak nuclear. If ghosts were real, they’d either have to use one of these or introduce a new force.

The LHC and Unknown Forces

The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) has been probing for new particles and forces beyond the Standard Model (like dark matter candidates, supersymmetry, extra dimensions).

So far, no evidence has emerged for unknown forces that could explain ghost-like phenomena. If ghosts required a new particle or field, it should leave detectable signatures in high-energy experiments — but none have been found.

Conservation of Energy

The law of conservation of energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed.

If ghosts were interacting with the physical world (moving objects, producing sounds, etc.), they’d have to draw energy from somewhere. That energy transfer would be measurable — yet no consistent, reproducible evidence exists.

Claims of “cold spots” or “electrical disturbances” in paranormal investigations don’t match the rigor of controlled physics experiments. They often fall within normal fluctuations of thermodynamics or electromagnetic noise.

Comparison to Other Hypotheticals

Dark matter and dark energy are good parallels: they don’t interact strongly with normal matter, but they leave measurable effects (galactic rotation curves, cosmic expansion).

Ghosts, if they were real, would need similar indirect but consistent evidence. Unlike dark matter, ghost phenomena don’t show reproducible, large-scale effects.

So your reasoning is solid: without a detectable energy field, particle, or force, ghosts would violate conservation of energy and the framework of physics as we know it.

Here’s a thought experiment: if ghosts did exist, do you think they’d be more likely explained as a form of exotic matter/energy (like dark matter) or as a psychological/cognitive phenomenon (hallucinations, brain misinterpretations)?

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Q. But a physical world requires physical matter.

A. Exactly — that’s the crux of it. The physical world, by definition, is the domain of matter and energy governed by physical laws, so let's break that down.

What “Physical” Means

Matter: Anything with mass that occupies space (atoms, molecules, particles).

Energy: The capacity to do work, carried by matter or fields (light, heat, motion).

Together, matter and energy form the observable universe. Physics is essentially the study of how they interact.

Why Ghosts Don’t Fit

If ghosts were part of the physical world, they’d need mass or at least an energy field that interacts with matter.

Without mass or energy, they wouldn’t be detectable — no way to push, pull, emit, or absorb anything.

Conservation laws (energy, momentum, charge) would be violated if something interacted without measurable matter/energy.

Known Exceptions?

Some phenomena (like dark matter) don’t interact strongly with normal matter, but they still exert gravitational effects we can measure.

Ghost claims, by contrast, don’t show consistent, reproducible physical signatures. That’s why they’re considered outside the scope of physics.

Where This Leaves Us

If ghosts exist, they’d either:

Be physical entities (requiring matter/energy we haven’t detected yet).

Be non-physical phenomena (psychological, cultural, or perceptual — not bound by physics).

Since physics requires matter/energy, the second explanation is far more consistent with what we know.

So yes — a “physical world” requires physical matter and energy. Anything outside that framework isn’t part of the physical world, but rather the conceptual or experiential world.

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Q. Give me physics-style proof showing why ghost interactions would break conservation of energy:

A. Okay, I'll provide you with a Proof Sketch: Conservation of Energy and Ghosts

1. Conservation of Energy Principle

In a closed system, total energy is constant:

𝐸 total = 𝐸 kinetic + 𝐸 potential + 𝐸 thermal + 𝐸 radiative

Any interaction must involve a measurable transfer between these forms.

2. Hypothetical Ghost Interaction

Suppose a ghost moves an object (say, a chair):

Work is done: 𝑊 = 𝐹 ⋅ 𝑑

That requires a force 𝐹 applied over a distance 𝑑

Force requires energy input from somewhere.

3. Energy Accounting

If the ghost has no mass and no energy field, then:

No source term exists in the energy balance.

Yet the chair gains kinetic energy.

This violates:

𝐸 system ≠ 0

Meaning energy appears from nowhere — forbidden by conservation.

4. Comparison to Known Physics

Dark matter: interacts gravitationally, so its energy is accounted for.

Electromagnetic fields: measurable, energy stored in field equations.

Ghost hypothesis: no measurable field, no mass, no radiation → no way to balance the equation.

5. Conclusion

Any physical interaction by a ghost would require detectable energy transfer.

Since no such transfer has ever been measured, ghost phenomena cannot be reconciled with conservation of energy under current physics.

So in short: if ghosts were physical, they’d need to supply energy to interact. Without detectable energy, they’d break one of the most fundamental laws of physics.

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Q. Extend this conclusion into a formal “no-go theorem” style argument (like physicists use to rule out certain particles), showing step by step why ghosts can’t exist as physical entities under the Standard Model?

A. OK. Ghosts as Physical Entities: A No‑Go Theorem

1. Assumptions

Ghosts are claimed to interact with the physical world (moving objects, producing sounds, altering temperature).

The physical world obeys the Standard Model of particle physics and conservation laws (energy, momentum, charge).

2. Requirements for Interaction

For any entity to interact physically, it must:

Possess mass or energy.

Couple to at least one of the four fundamental forces (gravity, electromagnetism, strong, weak).

Leave detectable signatures (force exerted, radiation emitted, energy transferred).

3. Conservation of Energy Constraint

Any interaction requires an energy source:

𝐸 system = 0

If a ghost moves a chair, the chair gains kinetic energy:

𝐸 chair = 1/2𝑚𝑣 squared

- E chair is the kinetic energy of the chair

- m is the mass of the chair

- v is the velocity of the chair

The energy of the chair due to its motion (kinetic energy) is equal to one-half the product of its mass and the square of its velocity.

That energy must come from the ghost. If the ghost has no measurable energy reservoir, conservation is violated.

4. Experimental Evidence

LHC and other colliders: No unknown forces or particles detected that could mediate ghost‑like interactions.

Astrophysics: Dark matter and dark energy leave measurable, reproducible effects. Ghost phenomena do not.

Laboratory tests: No reproducible, controlled evidence of anomalous energy transfer consistent with ghost claims.

5. Logical Contradiction

If ghosts are physical, they must obey conservation laws.

If they interact without measurable energy, conservation is broken.

Since conservation of energy is one of the most tested and universal laws in physics, any violation would have been detected.

Therefore, ghosts cannot exist as physical entities under the Standard Model.

6. Conclusion (No‑Go Statement)

There is no consistent way to embed “ghosts” as physical entities within the Standard Model without violating conservation of energy. Thus, ghosts are ruled out as physical phenomena unless:

A new force/particle exists (contradicted by experimental data), or

Ghosts are redefined as non‑physical phenomena (psychological, cultural, or perceptual).

This is essentially the same kind of reasoning physicists use to rule out hypothetical particles that don’t fit experimental data.

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Q. Now, analyze how this all fits into EVP.

A. OK. EVP (Electronic Voice Phenomena) is often presented as “ghosts speaking through recordings.” Let’s analyze how it fits into the physics framework we’ve been building around matter, energy, and conservation laws:

What EVP Claims

EVP refers to unexplained voices or sounds captured on audio devices, often during paranormal investigations.

Advocates suggest these are communications from spirits or ghosts, manifesting in the electromagnetic domain (radio waves, audio frequencies).

Physics Lens on EVP

Energy Requirement

To produce a sound or signal, energy must be injected into the system (microphone diaphragm vibration, electromagnetic interference).

If ghosts are the source, they’d need an energy reservoir to excite the recording medium.

This ties directly to conservation of energy: where does that energy come from?

Known Explanations

EVP recordings often fall within normal noise phenomena:

Radio frequency interference (picking up stray broadcasts).

Pareidolia (the brain interpreting random noise as speech).

Equipment artifacts (static, feedback, compression errors).

These explanations fit conservation laws: energy comes from existing physical sources (electronics, environment).

Ghost Hypothesis

If ghosts were producing EVP, they’d need to couple to electromagnetic fields (since microphones detect vibrations converted to electrical signals).

But no new force or particle has been detected that would allow “ghost energy” to interact with EM fields.

Without measurable coupling, EVP as ghost communication would violate conservation of energy.

Cognitive Dimension

EVP is a classic case of apophenia: humans finding patterns in randomness.

The “voices” are often interpretations imposed by listeners, not actual structured signals.

This makes EVP more consistent with psychological phenomena than with physical ones.

How EVP Fits Our No‑Go Theorem

EVP claims imply ghosts inject energy into recording devices.

Physics requires that energy transfer be measurable and consistent.

No reproducible evidence exists of anomalous energy sources in EVP.

Therefore, EVP does not provide a loophole to the conservation of energy argument — it fits better as a perceptual/cognitive artifact than a physical one.

Bottom Line

I have to admit that I have captured several EVP that I couldn't explain easily. Without enhancing the quality, there are several with vocal tone but lacking formants on a spectrogram which contradicts evidence of a human voice produced from a ghostly source. EVP doesn’t escape the conservation of energy problem. If ghosts were real, EVP would require them to physically couple to electromagnetic fields, which would be detectable. Since no such coupling has been found, EVP is best explained as noise + human interpretation, not as evidence of physical entities.

- MoonJoey